Chat Transcript, May 30, 1997
[Rob] joins at Thu May 29 21:41:57 1997 from 128.122.175.128
Rob=> Hello |
[wachsmut] joins at Thu May 29 21:44:54 1997 from 153.35.6.51
wachsmut=> Hi Rob ... | |
Rob=> hi bert | |
wachsmut=> looks like we are still short ... | |
Rob=> I've had a good time playing today with Java | |
wachsmut=> Great ... you'll probably be bored out of your mind for the first week... | |
Rob=> It gives me a chance to explore a bit. No problem. |
[Yan Yu Zeng] joins at Thu May 29 21:46:30 1997 from 149.150.169.11
[Jenn] joins at Thu May 29 21:46:40 1997 from 199.174.214.69
wachsmut=> Hi Yan Yu, what are you doing here - welcome ! |
[Don] joins at Thu May 29 21:46:49 1997 from 206.173.45.32
Rob=> here they come | |
wachsmut=> Looks like we're filling up ... great ! | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> I just watch what happened in your chat room. | |
wachsmut=> Alright, sounds good - you're more than welcome ! | |
wachsmut=> Hi Jenn and Don, are you there ? |
[David] joins at Thu May 29 21:47:59 1997 from 151.198.127.44
Don=> yes | |
wachsmut=> David, good to 'see' you too | |
David=> hello | |
Jenn=> Hi | |
wachsmut=> Alright, we've established contact.... | |
wachsmut=> let's wait for a few more minutes ... | |
Don=> I have a question. If I telnet to scirur from work, should I be able to run netscape mono? | |
wachsmut=> maybe somebody else will join .... | |
wachsmut=> Actually, with Telnet you can't run Graphics programs | |
wachsmut=> on sciris, remember ? | |
wachsmut=> Netscape won't work, neither will the applet viewer .... | |
wachsmut=> only 'text based' program will work with Telnet ... | |
wachsmut=> 3 more minutes, then we start for real, alright ? | |
David=> sounds good | |
Don=> yeah, but I was just testing those example from the lecture, but netscape wouldn't come up | |
wachsmut=> Right ... using Telnet, you can't start Netscape .... | |
wachsmut=> but we don't need to, at least not in the first week .... | |
Rob=> You can use telnet in to run pico and create and run Java applications | |
wachsmut=> Excatly ! That's in fact what we'll do today ..... | |
Rob=> sorry, I mean you can telnet in to ..... | |
wachsmut=> So ... might as well start with the 'Lecture' .... | |
wachsmut=> Everybody there - please say 'hi', or 'yes', or 'whatever' ... | |
Rob=> hi | |
Jenn=> hi | |
David=> Hi | |
wachsmut=> hmmmm .... Don ? | |
wachsmut=> Well ... | |
wachsmut=> Alright ... | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> Hi, You have already in old portfolios. | |
Don=> yes | |
Don=> I sent it once? | |
wachsmut=> attendence is somewhat disappointing, but here's what I want | |
wachsmut=> to do today.... | |
wachsmut=> I want to run through a couple of question | |
wachsmut=> about the first lecture .... | |
wachsmut=> please answer any time !!! | |
wachsmut=> What does every Java program start out with ? | |
David=> class name | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> Hi, world! | |
wachsmut=> and then .... | |
wachsmut=> every program start with: | |
wachsmut=> class ClassName | |
wachsmut=> { | |
wachsmut=> public static void main(String args[]) | |
wachsmut=> { ... blah blah } | |
wachsmut=> } | |
wachsmut=> } | |
David=> then, public statement | |
wachsmut=> That's *every* program ! | |
Rob=> then { | |
wachsmut=> Yes, there can be more, | |
wachsmut=> but that's the least every program *must* have .... | |
wachsmut=> Next: what are the basic data types in Java ? | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> Every application must have main(), like c and C++ | |
Rob=> The usual: int float double .... | |
David=> double | |
wachsmut=> boolean (which is not available in C++) | |
wachsmut=> Great.... here's another one .... | |
David=> char | |
wachsmut=> where do you declare a variable ? | |
David=> anywhere you want | |
wachsmut=> Great ... David's done the reading, clearly .... | |
Rob=> First real line of the program? (For good style?) | |
Don=> my send button is clogged | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> before you use var | |
wachsmut=> Type 'RETURN' instead of clickin on Send ! | |
Don=> now it seems ok | |
wachsmut=> Actually, variable can, and should, go right where you need them. | |
Rob=> ok | |
wachsmut=> Not at the beginning, not anywhere else. | |
wachsmut=> When you need a variable, declare it. There's something else | |
wachsmut=> called 'Fields', which we get to later, that is usually declared | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> class | |
wachsmut=> at the beginning of the class ... but that's for next time -:) | |
wachsmut=> Alright: What does 'x++' or 'x--' stand for ? | |
Don=> doesn't that it make it hard to see where they are defined though | |
wachsmut=> Yes, kind of true. But, if you need a varialbe somewhere in | |
Don=> subtracting or adding one to the variablex, like a counter | |
Jenn=> it adds or subtracts one from the variable | |
Jenn=> | |
wachsmut=> the program, chances are that it's not important anyway ... | |
wachsmut=> and therefore, no need to really bother anyone with it | |
wachsmut=> at the beginning. Counting variables in a loop are a | |
wachsmut=> good example .... it's pompous to declare them at | |
wachsmut=> the beginning ... big deal for nothign, don't you think ? | |
wachsmut=> And yes, Jenn, that's right, thanks ! | |
wachsmut=> Two more: | |
wachsmut=> Give me an example of how a 'for' loop starts out .... | |
wachsmut=> anything will do, as long as the syntax is right .... | |
Don=> for x = 1 to 10 | |
wachsmut=> Nope | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> for (i=0;i<=3;++i){ do sth here} | |
wachsmut=> better | |
Jenn=> for(i=1; i<=3; i++) | |
Rob=> What about declaring that i? | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> same | |
wachsmut=> Right ... thanks Jenn and Yan Yu ... let's look at that closely: | |
Don=> for (int i=0;i<10;i++) | |
wachsmut=> so you say: for (int i = 0; .... | |
wachsmut=> that means you are declaring a variable i as integer right | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> yes | |
wachsmut=> when you need it, | |
wachsmut=> and you are also initializing it to, say, 0, at that time. | |
Rob=> I don't mean to carry on this declaring business too much, but | |
wachsmut=> That's good, because chances are that the 'i' variable | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> I may declare it at begin or int i | |
Rob=> what about the next time you use a for in the same program? | |
wachsmut=> Ah, rob, good question: | |
Rob=> And want to use the same counter variable? | |
wachsmut=> every variable declared is only valid in the 'group' | |
wachsmut=> that it has been declared in. | |
wachsmut=> After that, it becomes undefined and can be reused. | |
Rob=> What's a group? | |
wachsmut=> For example: | |
Don=> as long as it's not in the same loop, he's ok right? | |
wachsmut=> Right | |
David=> different names? | |
wachsmut=> Here's an example: | |
wachsmut=> for (int i=0; i<10; i++) | |
wachsmut=> { | |
wachsmut=> System.out.println(i); | |
wachsmut=> } | |
wachsmut=> for (int i = 10; i > 0; i--) | |
wachsmut=> { | |
wachsmut=> System.out.println(i); | |
wachsmut=> } | |
wachsmut=> can all be in one class (or program) just fine. | |
wachsmut=> The first i is valid only in the first loop, the second one | |
wachsmut=> only in the second loop. | |
David=> ok | |
Rob=> Hmmm. Different than C. | |
wachsmut=> First loop counts up, second one counts down.... | |
wachsmut=> Alright, I have one more quick question: | |
wachsmut=> give me a basic 'while' loop, anything, as long as | |
wachsmut=> the syntax is right. | |
Don=> int i = 0; | |
Don=> while (i <10) | |
Don=> { | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> int i=0; while(i<=10){do sth here;i++} | |
Don=> some processing... | |
Don=> i++; | |
Don=> } | |
wachsmut=> Good.... the basic point here is that a while loop needs three | |
wachsmut=> things: |
[James McGirr] joins at Thu May 29 22:08:20 1997 from 152.173.184.218
wachsmut=> - an initialization part outside the loop | |
wachsmut=> - a test condition | |
wachsmut=> - a modification inside the loop | |
wachsmut=> Just like Don said. | |
wachsmut=> Hi James - I'll post a transcript of the | |
wachsmut=> session when we're done, don't worry .... | |
wachsmut=> Alright, now .... I have three 'jobs' lined up, | |
wachsmut=> but first: any questions ? | |
wachsmut=> you can ask questions as well, after all -:) | |
James McGirr=> I was a little unsure of the structure of an array | |
Don=> is there a way to see the typing line and also the bottom of this screen? | |
wachsmut=> Alright, arrays are for the next lecture, to be posted tonight ! | |
wachsmut=> Maximize your screen ? | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> keep use clear | |
Don=> it is |
[David] leaves at Thu May 29 22:10:17 1997
wachsmut=> Sorry, maximize the Netscape Window ? | |
wachsmut=> Oh well .... I'll 'shrink' the applet, next time it will be fine. |
[David] joins at Thu May 29 22:10:44 1997 from 151.198.127.44
wachsmut=> It's right now sized for an 800 x 600 screen. .... | |
David=> | |
Don=> no big deal, the clear works, thanks | |
Rob=> Don, try to better position the rightmost scroll bar. | |
wachsmut=> Also, on Netscape, go to options, and 'uncheck' the buttons, location | |
wachsmut=> and directory stuff to have more room to see. |
[Rob] leaves at Thu May 29 22:11:17 1997
wachsmut=> That's the only question ? Doing fine, then ? |
[Jenn] leaves at Thu May 29 22:11:35 1997
[Rob] joins at Thu May 29 22:11:36 1997 from 128.122.175.128
wachsmut=> Alright ... here's your first job: | |
wachsmut=> Please wait until I say 'GO' ... | |
wachsmut=> You need to create a homepage on Sciris | |
wachsmut=> Here are the instructions: |
[Jenn] joins at Thu May 29 22:12:26 1997 from 199.174.214.69
Jenn=> | |
wachsmut=> Keep Netscape active, but minimize it (not now !) | |
wachsmut=> start Telnet, connect to Sciris, login | |
wachsmut=> create a directory called 'public_html' in your account | |
wachsmut=> switch into that directory | |
Jenn=> i don't have a sciris account yet.. | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> How to set right path for run java on our own machine? | |
wachsmut=> start pico and create a file named 'index.html' | |
wachsmut=> Add some HTML code, save it. | |
wachsmut=> switch back to Netscape | |
wachsmut=> Now | |
wachsmut=> for help on creating HTML code, look to the menu on the left (but don't | |
wachsmut=> click on anything yet) ... | |
wachsmut=> See the 'HINT' link ? Don't use it quite yet .... | |
wachsmut=> It will tell you how to create a homepage. | |
wachsmut=> So, are you ready to roll ? | |
wachsmut=> say 'yes', or ask a question, everybody ... | |
Don=> | |
James McGirr=> yep | |
wachsmut=> Don, that's a 'yes', I assume ? | |
Don=> yes | |
Jenn=> i need an account... | |
wachsmut=> Rob, David ? | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> Question: how to set right path in order to run java in our own computer? | |
wachsmut=> Jenn, it's setup I think. | |
wachsmut=> account name should be agasjenn, password 'seton1' ... | |
Jenn=> ok | |
wachsmut=> everybody ready to create their homepage now ? | |
wachsmut=> I give you 10 minutes. Minimize Netscape, start Telnet, | |
wachsmut=> do your thing, be back here at exactly 10:28 ! | |
wachsmut=> It's now 10:17 on my watch. | |
wachsmut=> GO for it ! | |
Rob=> Hi Bert... I'm back. Do you want us to do any chmod? | |
wachsmut=> If you have questions, come back earlier, of course, and ask. | |
wachsmut=> no 'chmod' necessary, rights are correct by 'default' (I hope)... |
[James] joins at Thu May 29 22:17:59 1997 from 152.173.184.218
[wachsmut] leaves at Thu May 29 22:18:12 1997
[wachsmut] joins at Thu May 29 22:18:24 1997 from 153.35.6.51
David=> my HTML needs work | |
Don=> i can't fdind telnet | |
wachsmut=> Well, check the HINT on the left side (the menu item) | |
wachsmut=> you will loggout of CHAT, but can 'Join' any time later.... |
[Jenn] leaves at Thu May 29 22:19:04 1997
wachsmut=> go to start | |
wachsmut=> pick 'run' |
[Rob] leaves at Thu May 29 22:19:21 1997
wachsmut=> type 'telnet.exe' |
[James] leaves at Thu May 29 22:20:06 1997
wachsmut=> | |
wachsmut=> Don, are you login into sciris yet ? |
[Rob] joins at Thu May 29 22:20:29 1997 from 128.122.175.128
[Don] leaves at Thu May 29 22:20:52 1997 (UNEXPECTED ERROR: client not found in list.)
wachsmut=> David, how about you ? |
[wachsmut] leaves at Thu May 29 22:21:06 1997
David=> someone give some simple html lines, please |
[wachsmut] joins at Thu May 29 22:21:14 1997 from 153.35.6.51
David=> i have created index.html, but html..i will work on later | |
wachsmut=> No problem .... | |
wachsmut=> as long as you have that file, and that directory, you're okay ... | |
David=> done | |
wachsmut=> and you can add more code later - in fact, you'll have to -:) | |
wachsmut=> Alright, let's wait until the others are back .... |
[Don] leaves at Thu May 29 22:23:05 1997 (UNEXPECTED ERROR: client not found in list.)
wachsmut=> of course, if you want to chat .... |
[Don2] joins at Thu May 29 22:23:38 1997 from 206.173.45.32
wachsmut=> Don2 ????? | |
Don2=> I got disconnected somehow | |
Don2=> i clicked on hints and it said disconected from kitten? | |
wachsmut=> Strange, you're still on the list somehow ... |
[Jenn] joins at Thu May 29 22:24:39 1997 from 199.174.214.69
David=> my two year old is having trouble getting to sleep tonight, its life! | |
Don2=> yeah, and i still can't find telnet | |
wachsmut=> yes, kitten is where the actual 'chat server' software runs ... | |
wachsmut=> try | |
wachsmut=> 'Start' | |
wachsmut=> pick 'RUN' | |
wachsmut=> type 'Telnet.exe' | |
wachsmut=> that did not work ?????? | |
Don2=> my fault, i'm a fool | |
wachsmut=> if you insist .... -:) | |
David=> Don, i will try sending another email to you tomorrow. | |
wachsmut=> Sure, David, or post a question, if you like.... | |
wachsmut=> Alright, time's about up.... | |
wachsmut=> who's back ? | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> I am here |
[James] joins at Thu May 29 22:26:31 1997 from 152.173.184.218
David=> Here | |
Rob=> I'm here. | |
James=> done | |
wachsmut=> Jenn ? | |
Jenn=> i'm here | |
wachsmut=> Cool ... all successfull ? | |
James=> i think so | |
Rob=> I think so. What's the URL, so I can check it. | |
Jenn=> i think so.. | |
wachsmut=> You're new homepage is now: ... | |
wachsmut=> http://sciris.shu.edu/~username | |
wachsmut=> where 'username' is your Sciris username. | |
wachsmut=> Check it now or later, but I'll check it anyway a little | |
James=> I have a question, is there a way to use netscape on AOL | |
wachsmut=> later to see if it worked. | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> yes | |
wachsmut=> James, I think so, why not ? | |
James=> I keep getting a winsock error | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> but ,you aol must latest version |
[Don2] leaves at Thu May 29 22:29:18 1997
wachsmut=> If you have a problem with AOL, maybe 'post' it, and I see what I can do... | |
James=> ok, thanks | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> 32 bits | |
James=> yep | |
James=> aol 3.0 | |
wachsmut=> Right now, there's three more things to do before I'll let you go. | |
wachsmut=> Again, I'll outline what I have in mind first, | |
wachsmut=> then let's see if there are any questions, | |
wachsmut=> and then that's that .... | |
wachsmut=> Alright, here we go: | |
wachsmut=> you are to create a directory called 'assign1' | |
wachsmut=> inside the directory 'public_html'.... | |
wachsmut=> then switch into the assign1 directory via the 'cd' | |
wachsmut=> command.... | |
wachsmut=> then start pico to create three Java programs, | |
wachsmut=> one after the other, of course. | |
wachsmut=> First one: named 'Test1.java' does the following: | |
wachsmut=> write a program that prints out the first 20 numbers togehter with | |
wachsmut=> their squares, in reverse order. Save that program as Test1.java in 'assign1' | |
wachsmut=> Next Task: save as 'Test2.java' in 'assign1', and create a program that | |
wachsmut=> computes the sum of the first 500 integers and prints out that | |
wachsmut=> sum only. Save as 'Test2.java' inside 'assign1'. | |
wachsmut=> Last: Create a program saved as 'Test3.java' inside assign1 that does | |
wachsmut=> the following: it starts a while loop, which starts with i = 1. | |
wachsmut=> Inside the while loop, if i is even, add 3 to i | |
wachsmut=> if i is odd, add 5 to i. | |
wachsmut=> Do this until i gets larger than 1000, and tell me what the first number | |
wachsmut=> is after i gets larger than 1000. | |
wachsmut=> Alright, you don't have to do this now, of course. It's homework. | |
wachsmut=> All clear ? (I'll post it again in the discussion area, don't worry). | |
Rob=> Seems suspiciously similar to the problems in the handout!!! | |
Rob=> ;) | |
wachsmut=> Isn't it ? | |
wachsmut=> Well, we'll start slow, but we'll end strong ! | |
wachsmut=> As for the rest of the homework: |
[Don] leaves at Thu May 29 22:35:26 1997 (UNEXPECTED ERROR: client not found in list.)
David=> thank you for not making us do this now! | |
wachsmut=> I'll put up 'lecture2' tonight ..... | |
wachsmut=> print it, read it, understand it, post questions if any ! |
[Donny] joins at Thu May 29 22:35:53 1997 from 206.173.45.32
Donny=> I keep getting disconnect freom kitten | |
wachsmut=> I'll ask questions on the next chat session, which is .... | |
wachsmut=> well ... | |
wachsmut=> my pick is 'Sunday' evening, any objections ? | |
James=> perfect | |
wachsmut=> I can be talked into Monday, if necessary .... | |
wachsmut=> but Sunday's preferred. | |
wachsmut=> Sunday, say, 8pm ???? | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> yes | |
Donny=> fine with me | |
wachsmut=> Any objections ? | |
Jenn=> sure | |
Donny=> sounds good | |
David=> ok | |
wachsmut=> Alright. Agreed then. | |
James=> alrighty then | |
wachsmut=> Again: | |
wachsmut=> homework is: | |
wachsmut=> create three slightly different programs | |
wachsmut=> print and read the lecture | |
wachsmut=> the lecture - hi, hi, hi - contains 3 or 4 other programs, of course | |
wachsmut=> do those, if you can, or post questions if you can't | |
wachsmut=> link all programs into your homepage | |
Donny=> did you say this chat will be posted? | |
wachsmut=> and I'll see you back on Sunday, 8pm (hopefully everybody in time -:) | |
Rob=> Quick question... what's the convention about upper and lower case... for example, what about variables? | |
wachsmut=> Now, time for 'general questions, griping, and more ''' | |
James=> It took me 30 min to log into AOL | |
David=> links to these programs in homepage? | |
wachsmut=> Java's case sensitive ! | |
Rob=> But is there a convention regarding, for example variables? | |
wachsmut=> For help on HTML, check the 'HINT' on the left side of your screen .... | |
wachsmut=> Oh, I see ... sorry... | |
Jenn=> how do you link the programs to your homepage again? | |
wachsmut=> well, my preference is | |
wachsmut=> variables start out with small letters, but for a combined word | |
wachsmut=> I capitalize the next work, as in 'int myScore = 10'. That seems to | |
wachsmut=> be what most people do. | |
wachsmut=> Classes are usually capitalized, | |
wachsmut=> method names (whatever that is) start small, and | |
wachsmut=> if a combined word, second part is capitalized, as in 'main' (all small), | |
wachsmut=> or in 'toString' (later) | |
Rob=> ok... thanks. | |
wachsmut=> and often, input parameters start with an underscore, as in: | |
wachsmut=> convertToInteger(_x) | |
David=> whado you mean by linking programs in homepage | |
wachsmut=> alright, as to the links: | |
wachsmut=> you have now (hopefully) a homepage on Sciris | |
wachsmut=> at the URL 'http://sciris.shu.edu/~yourname | |
wachsmut=> You have created a file called 'index.html' in the 'public_html' directory | |
wachsmut=> on sciris. | |
wachsmut=> Then, in that file 'index.html', you should add links such that | |
wachsmut=> when someone click on the link for 'program 1', your source code for | |
wachsmut=> program 1 (which works correctly) will appear. | |
wachsmut=> Such a sample 'index.html' file you can find when you | |
wachsmut=> click on the left side of your screen (the menu for this class), | |
wachsmut=> and pick the link titled 'HINT' .... it has a brief explainaintion for what | |
wachsmut=> to do .... | |
wachsmut=> Well, good thing I can type fast -:) | |
wachsmut=> Alright, all set to go - or rather, to leave ? | |
David=> good night all | |
wachsmut=> Any more questions ? I'll be sticking around for anouther 5 or 10 | |
Yan Yu Zeng=> bye! | |
Donny=> will the entire chat be posted? | |
Jenn=> good nite! | |
wachsmut=> minutes, but feel free to leave any time. |
[James] leaves at Thu May 29 22:45:21 1997
wachsmut=> Yes, I'll post the entire 'transcript' (If all the technology worked out ....) | |
wachsmut=> Night everybody ... thanks for coming ! | |
Donny=> thanks | |
Rob=> thanks... |
[James] joins at Thu May 29 22:46:02 1997 from 152.173.184.218
James=> where is the transcript for this chat going to be located? |
[Donny] leaves at Thu May 29 22:46:32 1997
wachsmut=> good questions ... I'll post in on the bulletin | |
wachsmut=> board, so people can 'reply' to it, if they want | |
wachsmut=> I mean the 'discussion' area, sorry ... | |
David=> understood |
[Yan Yu Zeng] leaves at Thu May 29 22:47:11 1997
[Jenn] leaves at Thu May 29 22:47:32 1997
wachsmut=> Alright, anything else I can help you out with, before you'll start | |
wachsmut=> reading the next lecture, do the assignment, get - hopefully not - | |
wachsmut=> frustrated .... ? | |
Rob=> challenged. | |
wachsmut=> Well, so far I hope not really ... neither frustrated nor challanged ! | |
James=> good night |
[James] leaves at Thu May 29 22:49:53 1997
Rob=> I've got my page up, the assign directory created, and some test progs in place | |
wachsmut=> Well, that's why they call you 'Professor' !!!!!! | |
Rob=> but the links aren't happening.... I did this fast, so it's likely that I've made a | |
Rob=> stupid error | |
wachsmut=> Also, make sure the programs exist first of all .... | |
Rob=> So much for PROFESSOR!! | |
Rob=> The exist in assign in public_html | |
wachsmut=> Is it 'assign' or 'assign1' ? | |
Rob=> hmmmmm | |
Rob=> I'll be right back. | |
wachsmut=> Aha !!!! | |
wachsmut=> Yep, that's it. | |
wachsmut=> Your directory is 'assign', but your links refer to 'assign1' ... | |
wachsmut=> See ... that's the good thing having all your stuff on 'sciris' ... I can check | |
Rob=> ARGH. Well that saved me some time.... thanks.. | |
wachsmut=> up on everything ! | |
wachsmut=> Alright, Seinfeld is calling .... | |
Rob=> Ok.. I'm off. Good night. |
[Rob] leaves at Thu May 29 22:53:12 1997
wachsmut=> Talk to everybody later, then .... bye !!!!! | |
wachsmut=> Feel free to use this chat area any time you like, for your own | |
wachsmut=> discusssion, if you want .... | |
wachsmut=> Bye now ..... |
[wachsmut] leaves at Thu May 29 22:53:54 1997
[wachsmut] joins at Thu May 29 22:53:56 1997 from 153.35.6.51
[wachsmut] leaves at Thu May 29 22:54:00 1997
[wachsmut] joins at Thu May 29 22:54:03 1997 from 153.35.6.51
[David] leaves at Thu May 29 22:54:11 1997
wachsmut=> Your last chance to ask me anything .... |
[wachsmut] leaves at Thu May 29 22:54:49 1997